Previously I posted asking all of you for some pertinent questions you want to know about 2.4GHz equipment.
After giving my speech about 2.4GHz radios at the Toledo Show, I could see I need to light a fire under this subject. So, I’m trying it out here first…I’ll throw up a few, then you all can comment and we’ll build this database up!
RDS8000 FAQ’s
1. Why 2.4GHz? Why not 5.8GHz, 900MHz, etc.
2.4GHz is in a open consumer band that has many benefits. For example:
-There is simply less ‘model airplane’ interference through the 2.4GHz band. Most interference from vibrating metal parts, motor controllers, brushless motors, etc. all seem to be under 100MHz or so, thus making 2.4GHz very resistent to typical interference in our applications.
-This band is becoming more universal world-wide. For the first time, we benefit from the development of big industry electronics. And while “over the counter” components do not really work on their own for our applications, there is some much great support and technology already in existence it makes for better and faster development of the technology adjusted for our application. So, there’s equipment and technology available world wide AND when our pilots travel around the world, more and more countries use this same band, thus making the radios useful without modification world-wide.
-The FCC rules are different! The band is designed around preventing interference, thus the radios are working to keep your model safe from interference. It’s a whole different way of looking at how to use digital technology to work for the user.
2. What is FHSS?
-This stands for Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum. What is means, in effect, is that the radio frequency is actually jumping around all the time. The idea is if the radio is transmitting on a specific radio frequency for a moment that has interfering transmissions, by the time these radio waves might have an affect, the radio has already switch to another frequency. It happens several times per second.
3. Can the radio loose it’s unique code?
-The Airtronics RDS8000 is written such a way that the code cannot be lost.
4. What about antenna placement?
-Antenna placement is important. The two antenna portions (the last inch of what looks like antenna..the black part is just an extension) at the end of each extension must be perpendicular (at 90 degrees) to each other. But they can be right next to each other or far apart, that is up to you. Why the extensions? So that you can position the antennas away from wires, carbon fibre parts, etc.
5. What is the range?
-As near as we can tell, no one is claiming a specific range. Why? Because so many factors can affect range! We tested the radio side by side with other brands and found it to be as good or better. Our empirical test was run on the ground and we had over 4000 feet of range. As you may know radio range will be vastly less on the ground than it is in the air. Also, keep in mind that at 4000 feet, you generally can’t see a 60 size plane well enough to tell orientation. 40 size planes tend to disappear.
Ok, Here’s 5 to get started. Give me some more questions and I’ll answer them! We can build the FAQ for RDS8000 together!
Mike
Tags: 2.4GHz, FAQ Airtronics, R/C, RDS8000
April 29, 2008 at 5:12 pm |
Hi Mike, i have problem to use my RDS8000 on Phoenix Simulator via buddy/trainer cord, it’s simply won’t work, but my Futaba 6EXH worked. hope you can check whether RDS8000 2.4Ghz system compatiblity with Phoenix simulator?
Thank you!
Regards,
Alex
April 29, 2008 at 6:08 pm |
Alex,
Obviously we have no control over the design and thus compatibility of our radio with any Flight Simulators.
However, your comments/requests sure seem pretty appropriate to me. Thus, I have contacted Phoenix to see if there’s anything that can be done.
info@phoenix-sim.com
We’ll see if I get anywhere.
Mike
May 24, 2008 at 7:16 pm |
Hey mike its your old friend hugh. My pops just picked up a RD8000 2.4. were reading and learnign about i tnow. ! question we have is receiver battery. WE picked up a 6.0 volt XTM 1000 mah nimh (1 price was great) and were planning to use it. But upon reading the radios bible, it only mentions 4.8 volts. Are question is this.
Can we run 6.0 volts on a 2.4 reciver or is 4.8 volts the max it will handle?
May 26, 2008 at 7:57 am |
Hi Hugh!
6.0V is fine. The receiver is rated for 4.8 to 6.0V with no problem.
Mike
May 28, 2008 at 1:46 am |
Hello Mike, In regards to range check on RDS, I have control surface response in range check mode on transmitter up to 30 paces, after 30 paces signal loss is evident whether engine is running or not. My question is, will my plane be safe based on 30 paces as per manual?
May 30, 2008 at 5:36 am |
Yes, that should be safe. The range test parameters we list are the expected range on the ground.
If you are unsure, do a full-range test.
ON the ground, in a straight line, no obstructions, the plane should be able to be 1000 feet away and you should still be able to control it.
You can also try removing the receiver. Is the range the same? Maybe the fuselage is interfering with the range. This would show it.
And, please make sure that the two antennas are 90 degrees to each other.
Anyway, if you meet the range parameters you are fine. If not, run a full-range test.
If you are concerned, send it in or message me and we can discuss it further.
Mike
September 11, 2008 at 4:43 am |
Is the RDS8000 switches assignable for various functions? Are the channels on the Receiver assignable for various functions?
September 11, 2008 at 5:05 am |
No. The switches and channels are not assignable. This is a 200 dollar sport radio. Those types of features are usually found on more expensive (read that more expensive computer inside) radios.
September 25, 2008 at 9:24 am |
Hello Mike,
The RDS8000 manual cautions the user about possible interference from other 2.4 Ghz radio controllers while the Futaba and JR manuals do not. Are Futaba and JR’s transmission schemes superior to Airtronics’?
Thanks,
Felix
September 26, 2008 at 2:58 pm |
Felix, I am not sure which warning you are referring to. If possible maybe post a comment with a quote and page number?
I am not sure what you mean by “schemes”, but if you’re simply asking which is better, I won’t answer. The bottom line is that I do NOT run down or say negative comments about my competition just to try to make ours look better!
Our radio has proven itself, over and over, to be reliable even in very heavy-use situations. We have sold a ton of them and we’ve had tons of pilots across the country flying it several times a week in tons of different planes and environments. They all report the same. The radio is rock-solid.
Mike
September 26, 2008 at 10:57 pm |
I just purchased and received my RDS8000 yesterday, and I am eager to give it a ride. Your confidence in the radio is certainly assuring. However, I don’t understand how one can miss the precaution at the top of page 13, note 3 in particular.
September 26, 2008 at 11:39 pm |
Thank you for providing the actual reference. I can address your concerns specifically when I know what you are talking about.
If you read through my blog, you will note I have discussed this repeatedly. What the engineers are getting at is something that no one talks about much which is saturation. It begins with these common mis-understanding about 2.4GHz: Many people believe that an infinite amount of 2.4GHz radios can be on and in use at the same time. This is NOT true. Spektrum flat out tells you their max number because they are using fixed frequencies. With FHSS this number can vary greatly according to environment/proximity to the other radios.
For a worse-case scenario: Let’s say you’re at an indoor meet and there’s no control over how many people are flying at a time. You might have a very large number of people trying to use the band at the same time while all standing VERY close to each other AND flying very close to each other. This can cause RF overload (not just with our radio, with ALL radios in all bands… just no one talks about it from this point of view). Remember it is still a RADIO, thus physics of radio waves still apply. Somewhere along the way destructive interference will occur.
So, if you try to fly in a place that is overloaded with radios (for example there are so many on that the DSM/DSS equipment will not even work) our frequency hopping system might “slow” and the plane will feel sluggish.
Normally this simply never happens. So far not one pilot we have has actually experienced any type of RF overload.
In the conditions of the tests we ran, we generally found that it was about 40 2.4GHz radios, all on at the same time, with everyone standing within a 20 foot radius (like you might have at an indoor event in the pits).
If it is only Airtronics radios on, for example, you can have more than 50 in very close proximity use and they will all still work.
If you are using other brands “only” the number varies between 40 and 50 generally speaking.
However, when mixed, we feel the safe number in this environment (at least in our tests) seems to be between 37 and 40.
Think of it this way, each company takes the available band, splits it up as they see fit, and then either picks a couple of fixed frequencies or starts bouncing around all that they have picked.
So, even figuring that everyone is dividing it up differently, in the end you can still simply use all the “space”. And, the way they divide it up is pretty wide. We’re all still sharing a frequency band and truly an infinite number of radios cannot be in use at the same time.
Remember, if you are using ONLY Spektrum, the number is somewhere between 39 and 43 (it seems that for maximum performance the number under 40, but due to their use of the technology up to about 43 or 44 will work “ok”). If you’re using Airtronics ONLY, the number is about 55. I am not sure of the other brands, but still you get the idea.
Our engineers are trying to simply tell you that you can “max out” 2.4GHz band and that we do really share it with other consumer electronics. Thus, you still must use caution. Make sure your radio is working and responding properly before takeoff and if during the flight, it feels sluggish in anyway, land before it gets any worse.
I am not sure how the other companies explain or don’t explain it, but it is the reality of all systems, not just ours.
I hope this helps.
Mike
October 10, 2008 at 3:19 am |
How far of range does the Airtronics RDS8000 2.4 ghz get?
October 10, 2008 at 11:28 pm |
As I pointed out in No. 5:
5. What is the range?
-As near as we can tell, no one is claiming a specific range. Why? Because so many factors can affect range! We tested the radio side by side with other brands and found it to be as good or better. Our empirical test was run on the ground and we had over 4000 feet of range. As you may know radio range will be vastly less on the ground than it is in the air. Also, keep in mind that at 4000 feet, you generally can’t see a 60 size plane well enough to tell orientation. 40 size planes tend to disappear.
ON the ground in perfect conditions, full range is 4000 feet. This means that in the air, it will be more. How much more depends on many factors some of which are simply beyond anyone’s control. And because 2.4GHz radio waves are so short, they are great affected by physical things that get in the way of the signal from metal to carbon fiber.
It is important to note that most of these items only affect the outer reaches of the range. In normal use (1000 feet away or less for most power planes as an example), you’ll never test or see the end of the range of the radio.
October 13, 2008 at 11:51 pm |
How’s it react on larger aircraft? (50cc+) Does the engine cause radio issues?
October 15, 2008 at 12:09 am |
Also, if you lose the “link” with the reciever, how long does it take to get controll back?
October 22, 2008 at 12:09 pm |
Hi Mike,
Okay, the receiver antennas are supposed to be placed perpendicular to each other. I guess it doesn’t matter whether the perpendicular placement is along the horizontal or vertical plane, or does it?
Thanks,
Felix
October 23, 2008 at 12:40 am |
Mike, The radio works fine with most ignition systems. Their interference tends to be well under 2.4GHz. Truly “loosing the link” has to do with outside radio interference, so the speed at which it “relinks” will be “as soon as the outside interference goes away”. I think you’re asking, however, about the reboot if the computer experiences low voltage. The receiver computer works down to below 2v so long AFTER the servos have stopped working, the receiver will still be working. Thus, there is no problem will low voltage on these receivers.
Felix, other than the ends being positioned 90 degrees to each other, the position does not matter.
Mike
October 26, 2008 at 8:05 pm |
Thanks!
I just got my RDS8000, test flew it today on a .40 trainer.
Great system love the “feel” you get with it. Make you feel really connected to the plane. Gonna try it soon on one of my 50cc planes.
Thanks for all the help,
Mike
November 1, 2008 at 12:18 pm |
Hi, Mike.
I’m very happy with my RDS-8000, rock solid system so far.
Anyway, are you planning on developing a telemetry system, as other competitors are doing? (e.g. Jeti). I think this feature would suppose the Airtronics definitive punch, as the ability of real time control on remaining capacity in battery pack is imperative to us, electric powered flyers.
Sorry for my poor English. Best regards from Spain.
November 9, 2008 at 7:35 pm |
If I buy one of the 8000 will the receivers be compatiable with and if the 2.4 module ever comes out for the Stylus. And in you opinion on a scale of 1 to 10 how would the 8000 programming features compare to the Stylus. And will the rec. be compatiable with the new 10 ch. TX.
Thanks
November 9, 2008 at 8:07 pm |
I fly mainly sail with glide card.
Rick
November 10, 2008 at 11:27 pm |
The new Stylus Module will be compatible with the current RDS8000 receiver as well as the new smaller receivers. The RDS8000 is a sport radio and does not have near the capabilities of the Stylus. If you need that type of programming, you’ll need to wait for the new 10ch
Mike
November 10, 2008 at 11:29 pm |
The current radios will not have 2-way real-time telemetry. We are considering this for future models, but it is not part of the current models.
Mike
December 20, 2008 at 9:50 pm |
Man, I love my RDS8000 radio. My previous FM radio does not even compare when it comes to control authority. Combine that with the peace of mind you get from the absence of shoot-down interference. What more can anyone ask for? A transmitter and 2 receivers for $229, only Santa Claus can give a better deal.
December 29, 2008 at 4:51 am |
I was looking into a rd8000 for use in a scale boat project where I need the use of several channels. I have been told 2.4 is fine for air or surface but have heard many horror stories of radio glitch and signals bouncing off water. I completely understand about obstructions does water have an effect on 2.4
December 29, 2008 at 4:59 am |
The water/boat/2.4″thing” has to do with range and output.
The RDS8000 will have no problem in your boat as long as the antennas are extended straight up above the water line.
The RDS8000 is a full-range, high output (as compared to earlier surface radios). That is what makes the difference.
If you want both sticks to “center” rather than having 1 stick that stays in position, get the “crawler” edition 751712 part number. Same radio, etc, just with the sticks configured so that they both center.
Mike
December 29, 2008 at 5:24 am |
so both antenna strait up out of the water no need to do the 90o
would it help to have the receiver higher to get the antennas up a little more.
Thanks for the clarification I’m sold especially with it coming with 2 receivers
December 31, 2008 at 6:46 am |
Will the RDS8000 bind with other manufacture’s 2.4 receivers?
January 1, 2009 at 7:09 pm |
NO, just like with PCM, the digital encoding is unique from brand to brand. IN fact I’m told that one company tried to make their radio compatible with another maker’s 2.4GHz radio and they were sued over the deal. It seems the encoding is unique, proprietary, and protected.
The good news is that the servos are still interchangable and that can truly be the expensive part of setting up many planes (especially bigger planes with 11 high performance servos in them!)
Mike
February 5, 2009 at 7:09 pm |
Hi Mike,
what about LiPo for this unit?
Or how to change Mode2 to 1 or M1 to M2.
Or maybe backlight.
Alex
February 8, 2009 at 3:05 am |
RDS8000 can use a Li-PO, no problem. There are many on the market that fit.
Switching mode 2 to 1 requires “service”. End user cannot do it. However, we offer the radio on Mode 1 so if you want it mode 1, it’s available.
There’s no backlight on the screen available.
Mike
February 8, 2009 at 10:37 am |
Co no need for any kind of bec or voltage regulator?
‘Service’, or if i’m too far away and postage will cost the price of Tx? What about ‘advanced’ users with iron in hands? (i have mode2, so i do not need mode1, just curious)
Backlight, do you plan it for new 10ch tx?
February 23, 2009 at 4:42 pm |
Were can i buy Li-Po for RDS8000?
12,5V (11,1) no problem?!?
Thanks
Ivo